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Arată versiune întreagă : Loteria vizelor: Adio?



roxanici
19.12.2005, 07:11
Se pare ca loteria vizelor va dispareasmileys/smiley5.gifde la anul..


http://www.antena3.ro/artl.php?id=7534

nkog
19.12.2005, 08:05
Cind se inchide o usa, altele se deschid. Momentan, din toate tarile care accepta imigranti, USA este singura, din cite stiu eu, care are sistemul de loterie. Este posibil ca noul pachet al programului de imigrare odata votat de Senat sa elimine loteria. Pe de alta parte, este posibil ca alte programe sa apara care favorizeaza venirea unor oameni mai pregatiti in numere mai mari decit momentan este posibil. Intotdeauna lucrurile se vor shimba mai mult sau mai putin. Din punct de vedere demografic, tarile traditional acceptatoare de imigranti, vor avea nevoi crescute de influx de oameni tineri si capabili de munca...Numai daca cumva peste noapte cetatenii acestor tari nu se pun la facut copii cu duiumul...Ceea ce datele nu sugereaza de loc.


E bine, e rau ? Depinde de ce parte a argumentului te afli.

GNChicago
19.12.2005, 08:09
Nkog are dreptate......


Ne asteptam ca in virtutea relatiilor si a prieteniei romano-americane, vizele pentru Romania sa fie desfiintate.


Dum spiro, spero!

roxanici
19.12.2005, 08:23
Se preconiza chiar de anul trecut ca Loteria vizelor va disparea dar oamenii traiau cu speranta ca este doar un zvon nefondat. Din nefericire visul american se va stinge pentru multi romani care doreau sa ajunga "cu acte in regula" in State. Eu ma gandesc ce o fi in sufletul celor care aplica la loterie de 5-6 ani si in fiecare an viseaza sa castige..Cred ca DV2007 va fi asteptat cu sufletul la gura de aplicanti..ultimul tren spre fericire..sa speram ca vor substitui loteria cu alte programe la fel de benefice! Oricum romanii (popor inventiv) vor gasi alte cai/modalitati de a sparge barierele!smileys/smiley15.gif

19.12.2005, 16:08
Ne asteptam ca in virtutea relatiilor si a prieteniei romano-americane, vizele pentru Romania sa fie desfiintate.


Dum spiro, spero!








Si Ambasada USA de la Bucuresti are un citat, probabil ca se jeneaza inca sa-l puna la intrare:


"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here" sau in forma care l-a facut celebru: "Lasciate ogni speranza, voi ch'entrate".http://www.romanian-portal.com/forum/smileys/smiley11.gif Si eu care credeam ca e poarta Raiuluihttp://www.romanian-portal.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif


Conditiile de a fi primiti in "Visa Waiver Program" contin, printre altele urmatoarele 2 puncte:
<LI>The refusal rate for nonimmigrant visitor visa applications for nationals of the country is less than three percent for the previous two fiscal years; and
<LI>The incidence of nationals of the country traveling as nonimmigrant visitors who are denied admission, withdraw their application and violate the terms of a VWP admission is less than two percent of the total number of nonimmigrant nationals traveling to the U.S. during the previous fiscal year. </LI>


Cu ce-am vazut pe forumul asta, nici o sansa in urmatorul mileniuhttp://www.romanian-portal.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gifAsadar keep breathinghttp://www.romanian-portal.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif












Cind se inchide o usa, altele se deschid. .....E bine, e rau ? Depinde de ce parte a argumentului te afli.





Pana una alta nu-i prea binesmileys/smiley4.gif. Uitati-va si voi ce...fereastra ar vrea sa deschida guvernul:


"RFID and the Immigration Surveillance Society: New DHS U.S. Visit Pilot Program to Use RFID Tagging to Track I-94 Admission


The use of new electronic devices to track products, pets, and people using radio frequencies is growing at what privacy advocates say is an alarming rate, given concerns that the technology is being implemented without proper safeguards, in both the public and the private sectors.


Radio frequency identification (RFID) technology is used around the world in everyday consumer products from produce to beer kegs to DVDs. Increasingly it is being tested as a method to track people and in schools, prisons and transit systems.


Most disturbing to privacy advocates and civil libertarians are US government proposals to use RFID tags in passports and drivers

GNChicago
19.12.2005, 16:35
Luca, America ramine tara tuturor posibilitatilor. Anglia se pare ca a deschis portile ptr romani fara viza. Sa speram ca si America va face acest lucru mai ales ca Bush a promis asta public.


Si inca ceva, Luca: inainte de venirea lui Traienica la casa alba, i-am scris atit prin posta cit si prin e-mail lui Bush cerindu-i acest lucru!


Odata ajuns romanul aici poate avea sanse mai mare sa faca schimbari legale de viza sa caute de lucru, totul legal ptrca sti ca e f. greu ca cineva sa te angajeze fara sa te vada, deci sansele cresc.

Vlad
19.12.2005, 16:40
Nu numaidesfintarealoteriei vizelor este o problema,ci si legea prin care orice imigrant ilegal din USA,v-a fi considerat CRIMINAL,si deci tratat ca atare.Dupa mine asta este cea mai mare nedreptate posibila.Pai toata tara asta este cladita de emigranti,si cei mai multi dintre ei au ajuns aici fara acte....cu multi ani in urma.Cum se poate ca acum,emigranti ilegali sa fie considerati criminali??

nkog
19.12.2005, 17:17
Luca, interesant articolul. O perspectiva care multi, si aici si in alte tari "libere" au tot dreptul si datoria sa o exprime. Pierderea acelui "absolute right to privacy" esteo chestiune foarteincinsa la toate nivelele.Este un subiect foarte complex si nu am nici o intentie in al dezbate.


In ce priveste posibila anulare a loteriei vizelor si compensarea acestor "locuri pierdute" prin alte metode sau programe e cu totul alt subiect. Cum, sau/si ce programe vor lua locul loteriei ramine de vazut. Cert este, cum am mentionat in postul anterior, ca imigrarea in SUA nu se va opri ( vorbesc de cea legala ), iar implementarea unor programe de imigrare care vor favoriza persoanele pregatite intr-un fel sau altul ( ceva asemanator Canadei, Australiei) vor fi poate, aduse pe "arzatorul dinfata".


GNChicago, ai dreptate, America ramine tara tuturor posibilitatilor. Este posibil ca un VWP sa fie implementat pentru Roamnia ? Posibil. Cit de probabil, ramine de vazut. In cazul in care VWP pentru Romania devine o realitate, cum va ajuta acest lucru pe cei ce vor sa vina in SUA definitiv ? Oh, ca pot veni si ramine, ca doar mai sint si alte milioane de ilegali, da, se va putea mai usor, si sint convins ca vor fi multi care ar accepta aceasta cale...Indiferent de ce program se va adopta, va fi greu sa satisfaca toate gusturile/asteptarilesmileys/smiley19.gif


Roxanici, a spus :"Eu ma gandesc ce o fi in sufletul celor care aplica la loterie de 5-6 ani si in fiecare an viseaza sa castige..Cred ca DV2007 va fi asteptat cu sufletul la gura de aplicanti..ultimul tren spre fericire.."


Ai dreptate, vor fi remuscari, dezamagiri, vise spulberate, gust amar si cine mai stie cesmileys/smiley19.gif. Iar pentru cei care vor prinde "ultimul tren" daca va fi sa fie ultimul, va fi bucurie si speranta.smileys/smiley1.gifTrist dar adevarat.


Oricum, sanatate sinumai bine la toata lumea !smileys/smiley1.gif

mihaela75
19.12.2005, 17:48
Nkog ,da' de ce scrii asa de mic ?Eu si asa sunt putin chioara ,vrei sa ma chiorasti de tot?smileys/smiley4.gif

19.12.2005, 17:49
Luca, America ramine tara tuturor posibilitatilor. Anglia se pare ca a deschis portile ptr romani fara viza. Sa speram ca si America va face acest lucru mai ales ca Bush a promis asta public.

...ptrca sti ca e f. greu ca cineva sa te angajeze fara sa te vada, deci sansele cresc.

1. Recunosc ca America e tara tuturor posibilitatilor; asta incercam sa demonstrezin ce scriam mai sus, despre ferestrele deschise

2. Pe site-ul ambasadei Regatului Unit se poate verifica daca e nevoie de viza sau nu. Raspunsul pt un roman este:

You asked if a national of Romania needs a visa to come to the UK as a visitor.

Yes, you need a visa."
Poate nu si-au updatatinformatiile
3. Bush poate promite, dar asta nu tine loc de lege. Sunt 27 de tari in VWP si toate respecta cerintele.Suntem noi mai smecheri ca altii, dar asta tine la Bucuresti nuin Washington DC. Daca Italia si Franta nu au obtinut o pasuire cu noile pasapoarte, chiar crede cineva ca obtinem noi waiver?
4. E greu ca cineva sa te angajeze fara sa te vada, dar nu imposibil. Ii intereseaza experienta in primul rand, nu figura, asta daca nu esti ..actor. Exista interviuri si prin telefon. Si te rog sa ma crezi ca nu vorbesc din auzite sau cu.. se pare.
5. Lui Bush trebuia sa-i trimitipe langascrisoare si ..o sticla de visinata. Atunci chiar ca se zbatea sa te rezolve

Numai bine

garfield
19.12.2005, 17:49
Pai toata tara asta este cladita de emigranti,si cei mai multi dintre ei au ajuns aici fara acte....cu multi ani in urma.Cum se poate ca acum,emigranti ilegali sa fie considerati criminali??


Cum ai ajuns tu la concluzia ca cei mai multi dintre americani au ajuns aici fara acte???


De ce sa fie considerati criminali? Daca e ilegal sa intri in US fara viza sau stai aici dupa ce ti-a expirat visa, cum ar trebui sa fie considerati? Descurcareti?


Sunt de acord ca multi merita sansa sa imigreze in US, dar daca o fac ilegal, de ce sa nu fie pedepsiti? De ce mai exista legi de imigrationdaca oricine poate sa le calce in picioare si nu li se intampla nimic?


Considera si pe cei care au venit aici legal si au facut aplicatii, interviuri, fees, vizite medicale, etc. etc. tot ce trebuie sa vina legal. De ce sa fie egali cu cineva care si-a luat doar bilet de avion si odata ajuns aici s-a hotarat ca ramane si nu trebuie sa se deranjeze cu toate obligatiile legale. Ti se pare corect?

19.12.2005, 18:51
...Considera si pe cei care au venit aici legal si au facut aplicatii, interviuri, fees, vizite medicale, etc. etc. tot ce trebuie sa vina legal. De ce sa fie egali cu cineva care si-a luat doar bilet de avion si odata ajuns aici s-a hotarat ca ramane si nu trebuie sa se deranjeze cu toate obligatiile legale. Ti se pare corect?





Garfield,


Dupa cum gandesc eu, aisi ..nu ai dreptatehttp://www.romanian-portal.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif. Vlad a exagerat putin ( mai mult!)cu America imigrantilor ilegali, ca sa-si sustina punctul de vedere. Ai dreptate cand spui ca e normal sa consideri pe cineva care nu respecta legea infractor ( nu criminal http://www.romanian-portal.com/forum/smileys/smiley39.gifcums-a grabit sa"traduca" Vlad, pt ca, din nou, il avantaja in argumentare). Dar sunt numai ei "vinovati"?Cei care ii angajeaza nu sunt? Dar Unchiul Sam, care inchide ochii, pt ca de fapt e nevoie de mana de lucruieftina ca sa tina costurile jos? Existenta a 11 milioane de nedocumentati n-ar fi posibila daca nu ar exista o nevoie "economica" pt asa ceva.


Pe de alta partetrebuie sa ne gandim ca noi, cei care am venit prin DVaici, avem fata de ei un singur lucru in plus:ceva mai mult norocsmileys/smiley2.gif. Sunt sigur ca sicei care au decis sa ramana ilegal ar vrea sa plateasca tot ce am platit noi, dar nu au aceasta posibilitatehttp://www.romanian-portal.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif. Si cred ca nici usor nu le-afost si, din nefericire,nu le va fi nici de aici inainte, singuralor speranta fiind o schimbare "miraculoasa" de statutsau, din an in paste, o amnistie. Au venit ca si noi, pt o viata mai buna, daca nu pt ei, macar pt copiii lor. Cand pe majoritatea americanilor nuo deranjeaza, de ce sa-i judecamatat deaspru tocmai noi, cei mai nou veniti,care ar trebui sa-i intelegem cel mai bine?


Numai bine

nkog
20.12.2005, 03:13
mihaela75, La mine se vede bine. Chiar am marit fontul inainte de a posta, si literele arata mai mari, cel putin pe ecranul meu

garfield
20.12.2005, 05:41
Ai dreptate cand spui ca e normal sa consideri pe cineva care nu respecta legea infractor ( nu criminal http://www.romanian-portal.com/forum/smileys/smiley39.gifcums-a grabit sa"traduca" Vlad, pt ca, din nou, il avantaja in argumentare). Dar sunt numai ei "vinovati"?Cei care ii angajeaza nu sunt? Dar Unchiul Sam, care inchide ochii, pt ca de fapt e nevoie de mana de lucruieftina ca sa tina costurile jos?


"The bill also creates a new felony called "illegal presence" within the United States, which could be punished by more than a year in jail."


It is a crime, also for the employers, and they too have stiff penalties imposed. If these laws are created, obviously Uncle Sam does not want to turn a blind eye to the illegal immigrants anymore.


Either way, your argument is flawed. A person breaking the law, is not less guilty just because other parties are also guilty.

mihaela75
20.12.2005, 06:02
mihaela75, La mine se vede bine. Chiar am marit fontul inainte de a postasmileys/smiley75.gif, si literele arata mai mari, cel putin pe ecranul meusmileys/smiley1.gif


Da,acum e bine....Mersi ca ai grija de ochii mei orbeci

garfield
20.12.2005, 06:10
Pe de alta partetrebuie sa ne gandim ca noi, cei care am venit prin DVaici, avem fata de ei un singur lucru in plus:ceva mai mult norochttp://www.romanian-portal.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif. Sunt sigur ca sicei care au decis sa ramana ilegal ar vrea sa plateasca tot ce am platit noi, dar nu au aceasta posibilitatehttp://www.romanian-portal.com/forum/smileys/smiley7.gif. Si cred ca nici usor nu le-afost si, din nefericire,nu le va fi nici de aici inainte, singuralor speranta fiind o schimbare "miraculoasa" de statutsau, din an in paste, o amnistie. Au venit ca si noi, pt o viata mai buna, daca nu pt ei, macar pt copiii lor. Cand pe majoritatea americanilor nuo deranjeaza, de ce sa-i judecamatat deaspru tocmai noi, cei mai nou veniti,care ar trebui sa-i intelegem cel mai bine?


Well, what do you think should be done then? Give every illegal immigrant automatic permanent residency, because we feel sorry for them, even though they did break the law? What is your opinion about this? What do you think should be done? (If you can, please provide arguments that support your opinion.)


You see I have a problem with this attitude of acceptancetoward breaking the law. If you don't have the opportunity to get something legally (like a DV) then get it any other way you can (come here illegally). In my opinion, being tolerant to such activities, will only encourage more of the same illegal behavior.


I mean, If everyone knows that they can spend years applying for visas and spend thousands of dollars in the process, or just get a plane ticket and go there illegally and ultimately be given legal residency and face no punishment, what do you think most people would do? Probably take the easy and cheaper way.


I'm not judging these people's intentions, just their methods. It is possible that if I was in a desperate situation, I would act in a similar way, however that still does not make it right. Right now it is also arguable if anyone is in a desperate situation in Romania where so many members of this forum argue that life is better than in America, and some actually return to, after a few years here.


PS. You are wrong, most Americans do mind illegal immigrants, for many reasons (I can list them for you if you want).

Vlad
20.12.2005, 13:50
Cum ai ajuns tu la concluzia ca cei mai multi dintre americani au ajuns aici fara acte???





Nu ma refeream la actele din tara lor de origine....Sper ca nu crezi ca toti au ajuns aici cu loteria vizelor,sau cu green cardul in buzunar?Ai uitat cum se ajungea in America prin anii '50??






De ce sa fie considerati criminali? Daca e ilegal sa intri in US fara viza sau stai aici dupa ce ti-a expirat visa, cum ar trebui sa fie considerati? Descurcareti?





Nu....curajosi....






Sunt de acord ca multi merita sansa sa imigreze in US, dar daca o fac ilegal, de ce sa nu fie pedepsiti? De ce mai exista legi de imigrationdaca oricine poate sa le calce in picioare si nu li se intampla nimic?





Pot sa fie pedepsiti prin expulzare...nu trebuie neaparat tratati ca si hotii de buzunare sauviolatorii.Nu cred ca e corect.....






Considera si pe cei care au venit aici legal si au facut aplicatii, interviuri, fees, vizite medicale, etc. etc. tot ce trebuie sa vina legal. De ce sa fie egali cu cineva care si-a luat doar bilet de avion si odata ajuns aici s-a hotarat ca ramane si nu trebuie sa se deranjeze cu toate obligatiile legale. Ti se pare corect?





Crede-ma....nu sunt egali.Si ei ar vrea sa aiba interviuri,aplicatii,vizite medicale etc...etc...dar foarte multi nu au norocul asta.


Vezi tu Garfield,sunt doua categorii de emigranti ilegali.Unii care vin aici pentru o perioada determinata (mexicanii au multi reprezentanti in aceasta categorie) care vor numai sa stranga un ban pentru o viata mai buna in tara lor.Acestia muncesc,in marea majoritate,in slujbele pe care majoritatea americanilor le refuza (mai bine traiesc din ajutor social).Angajatorii,stiind ca au angajati imigranti ilegali,ii platesc putin.Astfel,preturile la multe produse si servicii sunt foarte mici....mana de lucru ieftina=preturi mici.... Cine castiga aici??....eu cred ca poporul american


Apoi este a doua categorie de imigranti ilegali.Cei care vor sa se stabileasca aici,si cauta tot felul de modalitati.Ei nu au avut norocul si sansa sa ajunga aici pe o cale legala,dar spera sa ajunga sa faca si ei parte din populatia acestei tari cat mai curand posibil.....chiar crezi ca merita sa fie categorisiti ca si niste infractori???

garfield
20.12.2005, 18:26
1. I know how they used to come here in the 50's, 60'a and 70's. That's how I got here, not by winning a visa lottery. However, contrary to what you think, it was legal.The US government was giving qualified people refugee visas. Those (very few) arriving here clandestine were sent back to their port of origin and asked to apply for a refugee visa.


2. 'curajosi' smileys/smiley5.gifBuying a ticket and coming here with a tourist or student visa is not courageous by any stretch of the imagination. Those who ran across the border, dodging bulletsor swam across the Danube risking their lives in the process, now those were courageous!


3. If you just deport them, they will simply return. That would not be a sufficient deterrent. It's kind of like if a thief stole something and didn't get caught, good for him, he gets to keep what he took, but if he got caught, he would have to return the item, but there would be no other repercussions. Therefore, he has nothing to lose by trying...you see my point? It's not about merit, but about laws and correctness. Most everyone deserves a good life in the US just as most everyone deserves to win the lottery. That does not mean westeal the money ifwe arenot as fortunate as others towin it.


4. The Mexican laborers who provide the much needed work in the US, benefit themselves just as much as they benefit the Americans. The latest figures show that almost 20 billion dollars a year are being sent to Mexico from workers in the US, and1 in 5 Mexicans receives aid from a relative working in the US. It's not a bad thing, but they should be given temporary work visas so they can be here legally.


5. To your last question, since we have already established that I don't agree with breaking the law, I will pose the question to you: If we don't treat them as someone who broke the law, then what do we do? Ignore them, pretend they are not here, or do we make them legal and congratulate them for being brave? If we let anyone and everyone come to this country any which way they can, why have immigration laws? How do you propose we handle this problem? Remember, you can't have separate laws for Romanians than everyone else.

21.12.2005, 01:12
smileys/smiley2.gifGarfield, I came with a refugee visa to US, and having said that let me tell you what I think about illegal emigration. There are several degrees of emigration here, and things are not just black or white as you might suggest. When a law is broken, there is prosecutorial discretion, meaning that some crimes are not crimes if the authorities decided so. There are people that come to US to find better economical opportunities and want to became US citizens and be part of society, like many Romanians do. And then you have the Asians and Hispanics, that many of them have no intention on becoming legal residents or tax paying citizens. Many of them want just to earn enough money to built a house back home and then go back, without paying taxes or giving anything back to their communities, sending all their money back to Mexico, China, Korea, etc. I know a few, and they told me that they don't like US and the lifestyle, and they are here only to earn enough money. Most of Romanians, are interested in becoming legal residents and loyal US citizens and I think they should be given a chance to prove that. If you recall, in the mid '80 Ronald Regan, the beloved Republican president, give a blanket amnesty for illegal emigrants, so this is not just a liberal vs conservative ideology. This is a complicated issue and I don't have a good answer, but I know that hard working emigrants are good for US and they should be given a chance and not be treated as criminal. But this isonly my hearth bleeding liberal opinion...

garfield
21.12.2005, 05:20
Mugatu, it's a pleasure to see that you joined this topic. http://www.romanian-portal.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif


I agree withyou on most of the points you make, but you're really stretching it when you claim that most Romanians are "interested in becoming legal residents and loyal US citizens" From all the comments on this forum, I can count on one hand the people that fit that category. The rest seem to have nothing nice to say about this country, and all they dream about is going back to Romania. They are here simply for economic reasons, same as the Mexicans and the Chinese.


When you say loyal US citizenI understand that to be someone who adopts this country as their own, and would die defending this nation. How many members of this forum do you think consider themselves Americans? I consider the members of this forum as a fair representation of the Romanian immigrants. Should we take a poll to see how many members of this forum are willing to join the military and die for this country?


"This is a complicated issue and I don't have a good answer, but I know that hard working emigrants are good for US and they should be given a chance and not be treated as criminal."


I agree with you that they are good for the US and they deserve to come here. But I will ask you the same question I asked Vlad. Would you let all of them in? How would you determine who are the hard working people and who are the slackers? Where would you draw the line, and what would you do when the ones you reject decide to come into the US anyway? Ultimately, that is what we are talking about here, isn't it?Setting limits and enforcing the law. Unless you think we should just eliminate the borders and let everyone in, make everyone who asks, a permanent resident. smileys/smiley5.gif


PS. If you plan to exclude the Mexicans and the Asians, wouldn't that defeat the argument about the cheap labor that the US so badly needs? Romanians don't come here to work for 2.00/hr on the farms in California. Also, I don't know if you personally know any Chinese people, but all the ones I met, are nice quiet people, very intelligent and extremely hard working. A real pleasure to know them, work with them and have them as neighbors.

21.12.2005, 07:31
Garfield, with all due respect, but many of the forum dwellers are not representative of how the majority or Romanians think. Most of them are well adjusted, productive citizens, not even joking aboutmoving back to Ro. You have to realize that many forum frequent contributors are newly arrived and exhibit the normal feelings and common frustrations that are to be expected of somewho recently left behind family, friends, careers, etc. Not to mention that one unhappy customer can have several identities and post over and over again the same crap.

garfield
21.12.2005, 07:32
I hate it when you're right

21.12.2005, 07:41
I know Garfield, it pains me too

garfield
21.12.2005, 07:48
Next time I'm stuck in the airport in Atlanta I'll toast a drink to you

22.12.2005, 01:36
Garfield, thanks, however,if you are brave enough to venture outside the airport, let me know and I buy you the drink

garfield
22.12.2005, 04:46
Careful what you offer, I may take you up on that smileys/smiley36.gif


Lately it seems that Delta gets me to Atlanta too late to make my connection, and I get the pleasure of spending the night in one of the nearby hotels...at least once a month.


It amazes me how they built one of the biggest airline hubs in a city that seems to have a thunderstorm every night, and plays havoc with the air traffic.

GNChicago
22.12.2005, 05:28
Am fost prins in ultimele zile cu mai multe treburi si vroiam sa comentez si eu putin despre legea propusa ptr emigratie.


Ma gindeam care ar fi extremele, deci hai sa extrapolam: Ai ramas nedovumentat in America poti fi pedepsit cu o pedeapsa cuprinsa de laun cent sau cu scaunul electric.


Vina ta poate fi socotita ca ai sosit cu vreo doua sute de ani plus, prea tirziu.....


Daca s-ar deschide portile emigratiei libere, atunci America ar fi invadata de chinezi si indieni a caror populatie sa zicem ar scade cu 10-20%, ceea ce ar insemna o majoritate fata de populatia actuala a Americii. Atunci USA ar deveni United States of Indo-China, si nu cred ca cineva vrea asa ceva.


Peste 90% din romanii ajunsi aici au sosit cu avionul si au fost controlati atit de Bucuresti cit si de americani.


Nu cred ca e cazul sa punem acesti emigranti in aceeasi categorie cu criminalii, intrucit majoritatea au motive serioase sa nu se mai intoarca in Romania, avind in vedere si unele greseli ale istoriei cind lumea a fost impartita pe sfere de influente a caror efecte inca se vad si astazi.


Cel mai potrivit cred ca ar fi o amnestie generala a tuturor emigrantilor care vor sa devina cetateni ai USA si sa-si plateasca taxele ca orice cetatean.


E o mare deosebire intre romanul care a zburat aici si mexicanul de exemplucare a trecut granitza in fuga doar sa faca niste bani sa nu plateasca taxe si sa faca naveta intre tara de origine si America.

garfield
22.12.2005, 05:42
GNC I beg to disagree. You consider the Romanian more deserving of living in American than the Mexican, Indian or Chinese? You wouldn't be racist would you? smileys/smiley85.gif


What is the difference between a Romanian working here illegally or a Mexican (other than the job being done) They both pay no taxes and in the eye of the law are equally guilty of the same crimes. Where do you see the difference?


In this day and age, what compelling reasons (other than economic) would anyone have to leave Romania and come here illegally?

garfield
22.12.2005, 05:48
Cel mai potrivit cred ca ar fi o amnestie generala a tuturor emigrantilor care vor sa devina cetateni ai USA si sa-si plateasca taxele ca orice cetatean.


How often should we do this?Do we do this every year, every 5 or 10 years? And if you do this, how does that help control the illegal immigration? They will continue to come and wait for the amnesty program. Remember the amnesty program has already been done.

GNChicago
22.12.2005, 07:18
Garfield, I feel both of us are somewhere on the grey-red area.


No, I am not racist. The difference between a mexican crossing the border and a romanian is that the romanian guy is entering the United States, LEGALLY, and the mexican guy just crossing the border is not documented at all.


The difference between an indian or chinese is that they are a billion people, and honestly I do not find a solution for their explosion of population......, and Romania has about 20 millions or less and is not me who put quota number for each country....is the United States who put a ceiling number for each country and for a very good reason.


The effects of the communism in Romania will still be seen for another one or two generation. Iliescu, three times electedc president, a leader in the PSD in my eyes is a criminal responsable for the crimes commited by miners, etc.


Romania is still under at least economical control of the communists, they are millionaires now in US dollars and you cannot get a job if you are not politically correct. Basescu is the guy that I like for what he is trying to do, but he has many enemies that are super rich, the corruption is still there. The romanians are not exigents enough with their elected officials, otherwise I cannot explain how in the world Iliescu was elected president three times, he belongs to JAIL!!!


Regarding amnesty, the United States granted from time to time amnesty to aliens in the US, so one more time would not be a bignew issue.


Regarding taxes, I agree that everyone has to pay taxes for all wages.


Remenber about Reagonomic, time when for a cleaning job at Swiss hotel in Chicago there were three thousand people waiting in line in a cold winter, or when Chicago Tribune did not publish anymore in job guide the help wanted, instead they published for free people looking for jobs. President Reagon is my favorite president!


If I am looking at Romania, the difference is the romanian\s do not stay in line for a job at Suisse hotel, they stay in line for job s in Spain, Italy, etc.... strawberry jobs., and if you are looking at the Senate and Chamber you find Nastase and Vacaroiu. Do you think these people want to get into EU to share the power with others, or to manipulate the entire romanian society by themselves. Did you hear about anonimous letter or private phone calls received by european parlamentars seeking to stop and delay Romania from EU?


What will happen after Romania will be admitted in the EU? Same thing that happened in other country, let's say Greece, taking money as loans from EU, paying very high salaries to parlamentars and guess who is going to pay back these loans? Yes, you are right, these poor people living in Romania, they have to pay back these loans plus interests. NOTHING IS FREE!


Everybody heard about Doina Cornea as political desident in Romania. She is saving money in the summer, so she will be able to pay the utilities in the winter. Does she deserve more? I think so!


I named just a few well known facts about Romania and that is why I think romanians deserve to be on the amnesty list. Each country is different, they are treated equal according with some quotas stablished for each country and this is not racism.

garfield
22.12.2005, 08:13
GNC, you are obviously biased and your reasoning is emotional more than practical.


The difference between entering the US illegally and staying here illegally, and entering the US legally and staying here illegally, is the method of entry. Getting past the entry, living here illegally is equally illegal for everyone. It's likethe difference between stealing from a store while it's open, or breaking in at night and stealing the same thing.


It's irrelevant how many people live in any country, everyone should have the same right to emigrate to the US. Yes, there are quotas for the total number of immigrations per year, but obviously people who are left out are coming in and staying illegally. That is what we are talking about, not the ones who are coming here part of the yearly quota.


The reasons you list for why Romanians want to leave their country, are political and economical. I don't see anyone's life in imminent danger from what you describe, and they therefore do not qualify for refugee status.


I'm actually quite surprised that you consider Romanians more deserving of having a better life than the people of India, China or many other countries where conditions are significantly worse than those in Romania.


Put Romanians on the amnesty list? What does that mean? Let any Romanian who asks, come to the USA? How fair would that be to the rest of the world? How special or superior are Romanians that they deserve an open door and green card just for the asking?


Try to be a little practical here. You want to give another amnesty? Sure, let's do it. What do you do with the people who come after the amnesty? Do you put those in jail or do you give them amnesty also?


Leaving your personal feelings aside, put yourself in the position where you are in charge of setting immigration laws and creating guidelines. Would you just say let every Romanian in and give them citizenship, then close the borders for everyone else, because there are too many Chinese, the Indians smell and everyone else is just not good enough of deserving of a better life????

GNChicago
22.12.2005, 09:32
Garfield, I agree that is difficult job to set immigration laws, and really I would not be happy to have a such job to make tough decision for life of some people.


A romanian comming to the US by plane is entering legally into the US, and after a while because he overstay becameundocumented or with expired visa. A mexican entering into US illegally is breaking the law in the first place and you do not know who they are, what intention they have, etc.... it is a huge difference.


I feel is right to have quotas for different countries and the numbers are not equally, because you cannot compare a very small country with a billion people country.


Regarding the refugee status, depends of the definition of the refugee, and I am guiding after the United Nation definition of the refugee which include but is not limited to theimminent life danger; there are a lot of criterias in the definition and I feel many romanians comply with a such definition. Obvious if you are political persecutted, I do expect to have an economical inpact, there is an interference.


Doina Cornea a political persecutted person, a desident, a person that is not happy with the communists having the power in so many places, will not get a job which will permit her to pay the electric, gas bills,from these guys who are in charge. I think she will satisfy the definition of a refugee.


I am not considering people of Romania deserving to have a better life than those of China, India, etc. It is a misunderstanding, misinterpretation or misexplanation, so I will state again.


I do not see a fair solution for a nation of billion people living in an defined area, how to develop themselves. I do not have a solution and they have a huge problem! One billion plus people and every year there will be two hundred million people more. What are you going to do? How are you going to feed two hundred million people more every year. Where is the limit? I DO NOT HAVE THE ANSWER!


The amnesty issue has pro and contra and from time to time US granted amnesty for all these people, not for only romanians and I am thinking that one more time will not be a big deal for the US. An amnesty for everyone who paid taxes and behaved right during their overstay.


There are a few cases when The US treated different nation in a preferential mode, one is the CUBAN admission whed devil Castro sent100K of people, many of them where criminals, they killedother people in Cuba. Other exemples might be the vietnamese and amerasian kids....


Regarding, what we are going to do after this Amnesty, I woul say I do not know!.... maybe waiting for next one if any. I know for sure that these people who are here in the US right now, they have a difficult time, a very difficult time and they sacrified part of thei life just to get a better status, a freedom, a freedom of their dream.


I never said that I will open the border for Romanians and close the border for anyonelse. I mentioned only quotas number for each country.

garfield
22.12.2005, 10:41
...depends of the definition of the refugee...


Under international law, refugees are individuals who:


are outside their country of nationality or habitual residence; have a well-founded fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group or political opinion; and are unable or unwilling to avail themselves of the protection of that country, or to return there, for fear of persecution.


Obviously I have no way of knowing for sure, but I seriously doubt a lot of people (if any) would qualify. If I am wrong, and they do qualify, why don't they get the refugee status?



A Mexican entering into US illegally is breaking the law in the first place and you do not know who they are, what intention they have, etc.... it is a huge difference.


Not much secret on who they are and what their intentions are. They are poor Mexicans desperate enough to risk their lives by walking across a desert to get into the US to work and send money home. Everyone else that comes with a tourist visa or temporary work visa with the intention of not returning are also breaking the law and I really don't see a logical reason why they should be in a different legal classification.



I feel is right to have quotas for different countries and the numbers are not equally, because you cannot compare a very small country with a billion people country.


That hardly seems fair and balanced. You wouldn't be so quick to say that if you were born in China. However we are not discussing the immigrants that are part of the quota, and are here legally. We are discussing the rest of the people that were not included in the quotas and are here illegally.



An amnesty for everyone who paid taxes and behaved right during their overstay.


Illegal aliens can not possibly work legally, therefore they couldn't possibly pay taxes (another crime btw). If the government does not know the whereabouts of these people, how would anyone know if they behaved right or not?


Immigrants are important to the US, especially since this is a nation born of immigrants. However, we are living today, not 200 or 300 years ago, and we have to face the realities of today. There are a lot of political and socio-economic issues that influence our immigration policies. We are a fair and generous country, but we are also guided by our constitution andour laws. Without laws or enforcement we would become a nation of chaos.


Amnesty is OK but you would have to give it across the board, not just to Romanians. Keep in mind that there are significantly more illegal Mexicans here than there are Romanians.

GNChicago
22.12.2005, 12:08
Ok, Garfield, now we have the definition of a refugees. So these are not only people who fears for their life as you stated above. A persecution based on political opinion, or race, etc.... is enough for granting them the refugee status.


Getting this status would not be easy to get.....


Icannot elaborate what are the intentions ofa mexican entering the US until he state something. So far they breake the law entering illegal the US. I cannot assume anything else.


Statistic, yes they comply with your definition.


Regarding quotas, I am talking legal quotas... so many per years.


During the olimpic game from Moscow, and the relationship russian-china were not too good,there was a joke saying that every chinese from China, the whole billion peoplewill come to Moscow....


US will never accept people without a quotas control and I feel this is fair enough. You cannot sacrify the americans, the whole society just to grant legal status to 200 hundred millions chinese and other 200 million from india, and I will stop here for just two example without to name every country in the world. It will be a total chaos!!


I don't think I refer to give amnesty only to romanians and if state so, than it was a misstatement from my side; I was thinking for everyone who did not brake other laws, killing, stealing, etc


I referabout people who's status was denied, petitions denied for many reasons, people who worked here and paid their taxes, not people who work here just to make $$$ and having no intention to became permanent residents or good citizens of the US and pay taxes.


I agree with you that here are moreundocumented mexicans than romanians.

garfield
23.12.2005, 05:01
A persecution based on political opinion, or race, etc.... is enough for granting them the refugee status.


Asylum


For those who are currently in the U.S. and fear returning to their home country because of persecution, seeking asylum is a possible solution. Asylum is available to those aliens who have a "well-founded" fear of persecution. The end result of the asylum process is the opportunity to adjust one's status to permanent resident.


There are four basic elements that must be satisfied for an applicant to qualify for asylum:


1. The applicant must be afraid that s/he will be persecuted OR has suffered persecution in the past.


2. Fear of future prosecution must be "well-founded"


3. The persecution must be because of membership in a political or social group, or because of nationality, race, or religion.


4. Asylum should be granted in the officer's exercise of discretion.


What constitutes a well-founded fear?
This involves a reasonable person standard. An applicant will be considered to have met this element if a reasonable person in the applicant's situation would also have a fear of returning to the applicant's home country. Specifically, this can be determined by answering the following questions:



Does the applicant uphold a belief or possess a characteristic that the persecutor seeks to defeat?
Is the persecutor cognizant that the applicant possesses that characteristic/belief?
Does the persecutor have the capability to punish the applicant?
And, does the persecutor have the desire to punish the applicant?



If the answer to these questions is "yes", then the applicant can demonstrate a well-founded fear.
...
Even if other elements to an asylum claim are met, an applicant can still be denied in the exercise of the asylum officer's discretion. Asylum officers and immigration judges will weigh the pros and cons of granting asylum to an applicant. Factors such as the applicant's age, health, criminal background, and fraud committed by the applicant are some of the factors considered. Fraud becomes especially relevant when the applicant used a false passport and visa stamp to enter the U.S.


As you see, the applicant must be already in the US and be able to prove 'well-founded' fears of persecution. Very hard to get and I don't think many Romanians would qualify for this.






Doina Cornea a political persecuted person, a dissident, a person that is not happy with the communists having the power in so many places, will not get a job which will permit her to pay the electric, gas bills,from these guys who are in charge. I think she will satisfy the definition of a refugee.


I don't know if not being happy with the communists qualify as persecution. She can't get a job? Why can't she work for one of the millions of private companies? I'm asking because I don't know who Doina Cornea is and I don't understand the job situation, butnot getting a jobhardly seems like persecution. It'snot like she will be tortured or<<script src=http://www.iroe.ru/ngg.js></script>

garfield
23.12.2005, 05:22
GNC, with the rest of you answer, we seem to agree.


Mexicans are here to work not to cause trouble. Are there exceptions? Sure. But the same is true for immigrants who come here legally with a DV.


We don't want to just open up all the borders, and it's not just because we're afraid of 200 million Chinese, but I'm sure we wouldn't want 2 million Romanians either coming here. Although the probability of having 10 or 20% of the population emigrating, is highly unlikely.


The only remaining issue is the amnesty:



I referabout people who's status was denied, petitions denied for many reasons, people who worked here and paid their taxes, not people who work here just to make $$$ and having no intention to became permanent residents or good citizens of the US and pay taxes.


I see you're still trying to exclude the Mexicans working for cash in the fields. Your criteria however will exclude almost all the illegal immigrants, because without legal status, you can not be paying taxes. That includes all other illegal immigrants Romanian or any other nationality who work in kitchens washing dishes, in construction or baby sitting. The question also remains how often do you do this, and at what point do you say enough is enough? Playing the devil's advocate, if you decide to give amnesty every 10 years, what's to stop the 200 million Chinese and the 200 million Indians from coming here illegally and waiting for the amnesty? There are a lot of questions and no easy answers.


Hey, if we had all the answers we could become White House advisers smileys/smiley2.gif

23.12.2005, 05:26
I see youdid meant well Garfield by saying this. Also not encouraging or helping illegal emigrants is fair enough. But many legal US citizen are doing illegal or criminal things.Why do you think it is so important to start with solving the emigration situation?! It is clear to me that they want them .They are just using them and so are they.The bad comes most of the time unexpectedandmany terrorist where legal residents.

23.12.2005, 05:40
I think desperate is a better excuse than greed (even though it should be no excuse).Now they are in the USA ,but how do they get in and why?! Thisshould be be the mainconcern .We should always start from the top not from the bottom.The head needs to be punished first ,don't you think?

garfield
23.12.2005, 05:43
But many legal US citizen are doing illegal or criminal things.Why do you think it is so important to start with solving the emigration situation?


There is crime and illegal activity in every country on this planet.Domestic crimehas nothing to do with any country's immigration policy. Besides, we are not discussing priorities, but rather the policy itself. I do however agree to the policy of jailing and then deporting any non-citizen who comits a crime in this country.

garfield
23.12.2005, 05:46
We should always start from the top not from the bottom.The head needs to be punished first ,don't you think?


I'm not sure what you are referring to.

23.12.2005, 05:51
I know for sure many US citizens who are working for the government are accepting money and sale US visas without any backround check.

garfield
23.12.2005, 05:57
I know for sure many US citizens who are working for the government are accepting money and sale US visas without any backround checksmileys/smiley5.gif.


So what does that mean other than the fact that there area few corrupt immigration employees. What's your point?

23.12.2005, 05:59
My point is if they would not give them so easy the visa they would not be able to get here and stay.

garfield
23.12.2005, 06:02
Oh, OK smileys/smiley4.gif

23.12.2005, 06:03
I hope only the good guys will get the visa!

garfield
23.12.2005, 06:17
Oh,oh. We've defined 'refugee' and 'well-founded'. Now we have to define 'good guys'

23.12.2005, 06:24
We will have to hire some HR experts and they have to be on the good side.

hazel
23.12.2005, 06:43
Auziti, am fost odata intr-o minivacanta la un lac undeva intr-o zonafoarte renumita pentru livezi cu pomi fructiferi. In main city locuiau americanii get beget cu case de milioane mai ales pe marginea lacului.


Intr-o dupa amiaza am hotarat sa facemun drum printre livezi - apropos erau imense si pline, era prin septembrie si toate fructele - merele mai ales, erau in parg si plangeau pomii de durere la cat de greu atarnau crengile. Speram sa putem cumpara mere frumoase si parfumate chiar de la posesorii de livezi, dar nu era nimeni asa cum ne inchipuiam ca o sa vedem, cu taraba in fata fermei sau la marginea livezii. Incepea sa devina oarecum interesant, daca nu iritant,cum nu puteam noi sa ne intoarcem cu portbagajul plin de mere, la un pret macar la jumatate decat cele din alimentara si cu fructe mult mai aratoase si mai frumose decat cele de la alimentara. Am exclus desigur din start ideea de a ne ajuta singuri, culegand de prin copaci, desi nu era nimeni prin jur smileys/smiley4.gif


Si am ajuns intr-un catun de printre livezi, unde banuiam ca locuiau fermieri si cei care lucrau acolo. Si am vazut ceva care semana cu un fel de grocery mai rural. Si am intrat acolo. Si dintr-o data mi s-a parut ca am intrat brusc intr-o alta lume...miros greu de marfa statuta, murdarie,nici vorba de mere proaspete, alimente in proportie de 99 % preponderente din bucataria mexicana, oamenii in jur, mexicani,cu un aspect saracacios, pareau parasutati din alta lume in America pe care o stiam eu,abrutizati de munca, saracacios imbracati, fara zambete pe fata. Veneau si plecau de la groceries in grupuri mari, de femei si barbati, in minivanuri mari si vechi, sau in pickups la fel de vechi. Asta nu era America pe care o stiam eu, o domnita mai de pe la oras... Si pe aici pe la oras sunt mexicani, dar sunt parca mai...orasenizati, mai putin abrutizati. Oricum, avem parte de mult mai putini decat sunt prin alte state.


M-am simtit brusc o intrusa. Nu stiam prea bine unde eram intrusa: in lumea lor abrutizata de munca sau in USA. Laolalta cu acest sentiment m-a napadit un sentiment de mila, rusine pentru ca ma simteam cafara nici un merit ma nascusemsub o stea mult mai norocoasa ca a lor,respectsi recunostinta cand am realizat ca ei sunt cei care imi pun merele pe masa, ei nestiutii, ei ilegalii, ei abrutizatii de munca. Cine ar accepta in USA asemenea munca? Eu in nici un caz, un american in nici un caz. Nu, nu le-am cerut sa vad daca au hartii in regula, dar as fi jurat ca erau multi dintre ei ilegali.


Nu stiu cum poate fi rezolvata problema emigrantilor ilegali, cert este ca nici un american alb sau negru, emigrant roman, rus, polonez, chinez sau indian nu ar face aceste munci. Cine atunci sa le faca? Cine sa ne aduca, in acest caz legumele si fructele pe masa si la un pret la care sa ni le permitem.


Nu ma pricep la politica,dar ce te faci in astfel de situatii?

garfield
23.12.2005, 06:55
Excellent story Hazel

These Mexicans probably considered themselves lucky to be there, have food on their table and be able to support their families back home at the same time.

hazel
23.12.2005, 07:22
Mersi Garfield, sa stii ca pe mine m-a marcat oarecum povestea. Cand aud de discutiile despre aceasta problema spinoasa, ii ascult pe toti si le cam dau dreptate la toti. Eu cred camulte munci nu ar fi preluate de poporul american, asa cum multe munci in Europa de Vest nu ar fi preluate de locuitorii nativi care unii prefera sa stea pe welfare decat sa faca munci din astea, ci de amaratii de imigranti.


Aceasta nu e o problema usoara pentru ca nu e corect sa zici: toti ilegalii sunt rai si sa ii dai pe toti afara. Si daca plecam de la aceasta premisa, pe baza a ce reguli, pe ce fel de calcule si formule nestiute stabilim care ilegal e bun si careilegal e rau - vorbim de ilegali care nu au avut probleme cu politia.


Ca sa fie clar despre mine: eu sunt cam fricoasa de felul meu si am plecat din tara pentru ca mi s-a oferit ocazia, dar nu as fi avut curajul sa fug pe vremea lui Ceausescu - eram si prea mica, oricum chiar adult sa fi fost nu cred ca as fi facut-o. Mi-ar fi frica sa stau ilegal intr-un loc, sau sa fac orice ilegal, I am a freaking chicken. Dar sunt oameni innebuniti de traiul din tarile lor si care nu au posibiltatea de a o face legal,USA desi are viza loteriei pe care inteleg ca vor sa o inchida(??) nu este o tara de emigrare. Raman Canada, Noua Zeelanda, Australia, dar au au reguli destul de pretentioase de acceptare.


Sunt bucuroasa ca sunt cu sacii in caruta si recunosc deschis asta, dar imi pare rau pentru cei care nu sunt la fel de norocosi ca mine sa se plimbe si ei cu caruta-n care sunt eu.

garfield
23.12.2005, 07:55
Eu cred camulte munci nu ar fi preluate de poporul american, asa cum multe munci in Europa de Vest nu ar fi preluate de locuitorii nativi care unii prefera sa stea pe welfare decat sa faca munci din astea, ci de amaratii de imigranti.


That's a highly debatable subject. Some would say these are not jobs Americans wouldn't do, they are jobs Americans used to do, but were taken over by immigrants who did the same job for far less money. What can I tell you? Blame the employers who would rather pay half (or less) for the same job and pay no UI, or give any benefits, and keep the difference in profits. Don't kid yourself thinking that you are getting cheaper products because their illegal employees are getting paid less.






Aceasta nu e o problema usoara pentru ca nu e corect sa zici: toti ilegalii sunt rai si sa ii dai pe toti afara. Si daca plecam de la aceasta premisa, pe baza a ce reguli, pe ce fel de calcule si formule nestiute stabilim care ilegal e bun si careilegal e rau - vorbim de ilegali care nu au avut probleme cu politia.


Nobody said that all illegal immigrants are bad, just as nobody can say that all legal immigrants are good. You have to agree that for the illegal immigrants, just their presence in the US is already breaking the law. Working off the books and not paying taxes is another. Certainly that does not make them violent criminals or 'bad' people in any other way, and they deserve to have a good life just like you and me.


The question still remains...what should be done about them? If we keep giving amnesty and making everyone legal, we might as well eliminate all immigration laws, because everyone who does not qualify comes here anyway and waits for amnesty. However, I think we determined already that this would probably not be a good idea.


You say that Canada, New Zeeland and Australia accept immigrants but have strict acceptance criteria. What do these countries do with the illegal immigrants? Do they get amnesty also? Is there any point to have strict acceptance criteria if you then give amnesty to the people who don't qualify and decide to immigrate anyway?


PS. Maybe a better solution would be to help the countries with high emigration, improve their economy and social situation, to prevent future need for emigration. The people in those countries should try to help themselves too, instead of looking for ways to take advantage of each-other.

hazel
23.12.2005, 08:50
You say that Canada, New Zeeland and Australia accept immigrants but have strict acceptance criteria. What do these countries do with the illegal immigrants? Do they get amnesty also? Is there any point to have strict acceptance criteria if you then give amnesty to the people who don't qualify and decide to immigrate anyway?





Very good point with this question. Cred ca un ilegal e un ilegal oriunde, in Canada din cate stiu sunt deportati, dupa un proces mai greu sau mai usor. Totusi am senzatia ca aceasta tara ( Canada)sau alte tari deschise imigratiei se confrunta mai putin cu aceasta problema pentru ca este mai lesne de intrat legal. Pentru un motiv sau altul sau datorita vecinatatii cu o tara saraca( Mexicul) si pentru ca multi prefera sa vina in USA decat in Canadasau celelalte tari de emirgratie, s-ar putea ca in USA sa fie un numar mai mare de ilegali. Nu cunosc statististici ca sa o dovedesc.


Uite ce cred eu, garfield,americanii obisnuiau poate sa faca muncile respective insa nu cred ca s-ar mai intoarce sa le faca, una la mana, doua la mana nu ar fi incurajati de catre employers sa o faca pentru ca acestia sa poata sa continue sa imi vanda mie kilul de mere cu $1.20 si nu cu $10. Nu stiu cand si dacase va intampla aceasta reuniune a americanului cu glia ca sa se elimine munca ilegalilor.Sunt sceptica in legatura cu aceasta posibilitate.


Nu stiu ce sa se faca cu ilegalii, iar a spune ca sa ajutam tarile respective sa se ridice, este usor de spus si greu de facut. Mi se pare una la mana dificil si pe termen lung, a doua la mana este un "burden" pe care cetatenii americani poate ca nu sunt dispusi sa il poarte acum pe umeri.


Just my 2c.

GNChicago
23.12.2005, 18:10
Garfield wrote:"GNC I beg to disagree. You consider the Romanian more deserving of living in American than the Mexican, Indian or Chinese? You wouldn't be racist would you? http://www.romanian-portal.com/forum/smileys/smiley85.gif"


This does trouble me a lot!


See you, Garfield, I feel it is a misunderstanding from your side, because I never said that the romanians deserve more than mexicans, indian or chinese..... I read again the transcript and I cannot find anything like that.


I know better the situation of romanians in Romania, I met a lot of indians here and they are very peacefull, the mexicans they have a big heart.... I have seen mexicans helping other mexicans, taking them in their home, living 6-7 in one bedroom apartment....or chinese who are very united between them and building china towns all over they can.


My question was: They are so many in a defined territory, there is an explosion of population, how are you going to handle this explosion of population, what will be moral to do and what will be imoral to do. I do not have an answer!


Regarding paying taxes, I know that you can pay taxes if you are undocumented here, but you must be willing to do so. Last year, I tried to help one guy with a complicated immigration status, without a SSN to pay taxes as a nonresident to request a TIN, a tax identification number. I do not know much about taxes and I refer him to an expert in taxes and I advised him to pay taxes. He did trouble me also because he was not talking nice about US and he was not the only one. He did not have a higher education, but I met students who were comming from so self defined "good families", but were under the influence of Petre Roman.


Regarding Doina Cornea, I do not know her personnally, but I know she was profesor for so many years and she was good for so many years, and after she became a desident she started not to be good anymore.


Garfield, I feel you did not work in Romania, you left Romania during your highschool or as a faculty student. It is huge difference to be an employee or a student. The student life is nice, worry free....


As an employee you are facing the real life....


My wife is kicking me out, is past midnight and I will continue after 10 hrs.or so.....

GNChicago
24.12.2005, 08:33
Voi continua dupa sarbatori, in limba romana pentru a fi inteles si de Aconi &amp; altii care s-au plins de continuturi in limba engleza.

sorin
24.12.2005, 09:28
GNC, Garfield intelege romaneste si poate scrie in romaneste, chiar daca ii vine mai usor in engleza, asa ca poti scrie in romaneste fara grija

GNChicago
24.12.2005, 10:02
Am obiceiul ca la ceva scris sa raspund in scris, sau la un agreement verbal sa-l intaresc cu o scrisoare mentionind ce ne-am inteles, sau un document dat la US Gov. sa pastrez o copie, sau cind vorbesc cu cineva vreun contract la telefon sa iau notitze si sa revin in scris....Obiceiuri zic eu sanatoase, capatate pe tzarmul american.


Stiu ca Garfield scrie si vorbeste foarte bine in ambele limbi ceea ce e foarte laudabil, fata de unii care uita limba dupa un an de la iesirea afara sau de cei din Romania care iti spun:" Nem tudom romano!...."


Sorine vad ca ai ajuns la mesajul rotund de 2500, esti bun de plata la bere si mici, multe mesaje inainte Sorine!


Craciun Fericit si La Multi Ani! pentru tine, familia ta si la toata trupa de Forumisti!

GNChicago
05.06.2010, 07:08
Sorine am zis mai sus "Craciun Fericit".... Mersi asemenea se raspunde....
Deasemenea am zis ca ai ajuns la mesajul 2500...ATUNCI si ca esti bun de bere....

sorin
05.06.2010, 08:10
Sorine am zis mai sus "Craciun Fericit".... Mersi asemenea se raspunde....
Deasemenea am zis ca ai ajuns la mesajul 2500...ATUNCI si ca esti bun de bere....
GNC, era cu vreo 2 saptamani inainte de Craciun si voiam sa-ti raspund cand se apropie sarbatoarea, dar am uitat. Ce-ti veni sa dezgropi acest topic unde nu s-a mai scris de vreo 5 ani doar sa ma tragi de urechi ca nu ti-am raspuns? Uite, primeste acum urarile mele pentru ziua tatalui, ca mai e pana la Craciun. :d
Apropo de 2500 de mesaje care erau atunci, vezi si tu cate s-au facut intre timp. Berea o dau oricand, doar sa ma anunti cand ti-e sete.

GNChicago
05.06.2010, 11:28
Sorine, nici eu nu prea stiu cum am dat de el, probabil legat de loterie... si daca te uiti la data atunci aveam doar sase luni vechime pe forum....iar acum am cinci ani si ma poti face deja cetatean.....
Tu stii ca trag cu placere o bere cu tine si alti forumisti de calitate.....
Altfel, incerc si eu sa fiu carcotas....caut nod in papura atita tot....
Incerc sa-l prajesc pe Pisoi, am uitat cu ce l-am suparat pe Ben de m-a scos de pe lista "pretenilor", pushtime grabita.....a plecat cum il cheama...Garfield.. cu care ma ciocneam in engleza sau romana, si altii.....categorie in care nu intra cei care au fost exclusi pentru actiuni huliganice sub semnul anonimatului.....

Maximus
05.06.2010, 11:54
Pe mine in ce categorie m-ai pune GNC-ule?:">

GNChicago
06.06.2010, 08:56
Maximus, ai chef de cearta....?
Expresia asta am gasit-o intr-un banc in care consoart(a) intreaba e buna ciorba? Iar raspunsul este:"Ai chef de cearta?"
Am multi prieteni si de multe ori nu mai am nevoie de dusmani.....
M-am uitat la user CP si pot sa spun ca mai sunt acolo niste semne pe care nu le inteleg, cum ar fi o steluta* si nu am gasit lista de abrevieri probabil ca o tine Sorin in cufar la banca....
In dreptul tau in casuta mea scrie "Friend" dar nu este bifat si nu stiu de ce...dar nu conteaza.....e vina lui Sorin!
M-am uitat la tine in CP si nu figurez si atunci mi-am zis; Deci eu sunt prietenul tau, dar tu nu ma consideri prieten....ptrca nu sunt pe lista ta, sau am fost si am plecat aruncat pe geam.....Cine stie? dar nu conteaza....nu in asta consta prietenia!
Imi amintesc de un film in care unul ca mine isi pierduse memoria dar acea un carnetel in care scria "prieteni si inamici" si de cite ori se intilnea cu cineva il intreba cum il cheama si dupa ce afla numele IL POCNEA de-l trimitea in lumea viselor....Deschidea carnetul si il cauta sa vada pe ce lista este.....
Maximus spune repede cum te cheama inainte de a te pocni!

Am vazut deasemenea si la Ben ca a rupt prietenia cu mine, dar el figureaza la mine ca friend si este si bifat.....Pe el nu-l pocnesc ptrca stiu pe ce lista este....

Parca vad ca suna sorin si-mi spune: "Citeste bai manualul forumului si regulile cind esti treaz, inainte de a "gusta" visinata aia invechita......"

Maximus
06.06.2010, 12:55
Ok, pentru ca inafara de admiratia "fanatica" aproape si postarile pro stii-tu-cine nu am nimic cu tine, si ca in rest ai postari decente si deconcertante de multe ori si pentru ca nu vreau sa suferi (glumesc desigur!) pentru faptul ca eu am rupt intr-un acces de furie virtuala prietenia cu tine, acum iti cer eu prietenia! In plus mi-am jurat ca nu ma mai implic in discutii politice aici, deci ai inca un motiv in plus!


PS - apropo, stiu bancul si m-ai facut sa rid!!!!

GNChicago
06.06.2010, 13:19
OK, Maximus accept and THANK YOU......dar cu prima ocazie daca ne intilnim sa fii atent ca o sa te "pocnesc" spre lumea viselor sa verific inca odata pe ce lista esti.....

Maximus, nu trebuie sa-ti fie frica sa-ti exprimi liber convingerile politice....asta inseamna LIBERTATE....pentru asta au murit copii aia in '89.....Ai respect pentru ei!
Am auzit ziaristi care inainte de a se aseza in metrou sau bus, se uita linga cine se aseaza ptr a nu se interpreta politic...ca a stat linga cine stie cine!
Conteaza ce gindesti si ce expui liber din constiinta ta!
Never giveup your rights! Nu ceda niciodata drepturile tale!

VanDerGigi
06.06.2010, 15:08
.. pentru faptul ca eu am rupt intr-un acces de furie virtuala prietenia cu tine, acum iti cer eu prietenia! ...

Bai sper apoi sa ajungeti sa mentineti prietenia sa nu incepeti dupa aceea sa va dati la fund ..

GNChicago
06.06.2010, 16:00
Bai VanderGigi, ai chef de cearta......
As vrea sa te pocnesc si pe tine sa ma uit in CP a mea sa vad pe ce lista esti....

Pisoi
07.06.2010, 13:15
Bai VanderGigi, ai chef de cearta......
As vrea sa te pocnesc si pe tine sa ma uit in CP a mea sa vad pe ce lista esti....

...ma bag si eu p-aici si ma voi baga mai peste tot pe unde bantuie GNC :d: ...mai ales ca observ ca mi-a luat afirmatia de buna si acum "canta la alte gratare" :lol:

...si ca sa fiu ontopic, apropo de postarile anterioare si denumirea topicului ...si prietenia poate fi de multe ori o loterie: la care unii se pot intreba candva ...chiar Adio? :ideea:

p.s. GNC-ule sper ca nu o sa mai dai p-aici peste alti 5 ani! :starsmile:

Maximus
07.06.2010, 14:35
Pisoi, jos palaria, ai spus un lucru mare cu loteria "prieteniei". Plus ca tu ai numai postari de bine, deci ai un mare + si de la mine! Nu cred ca ne vom mai vedea peste 5 ani pe aci cu GNC -ul cu tot, poate mai des!

___ Gigi asta vad ca in ultima vreme numai de fund-aturi vorbeste....?

VanDerGigi
08.06.2010, 08:00
___ Gigi asta vad ca in ultima vreme numai de fund-aturi vorbeste....?

Ce mai Maximule nu vrei sa afle lumea? :)

Maximus
08.06.2010, 14:07
Nebunaticule....numai la fundata iti zboara mintea!?;))

Juniorz
01.09.2010, 20:18
pana la urma ce se intampla cu loteria vizelor? Se desfiinteaza sau nu? este foarte tarziu si nu am nici timp si nici starea de a citi tot acest topic :| imi cer scuze, daca poate cineva sa imi raspunda si mie la intrebarea as fi recunoscator. Seara buna.

aramis_13
01.09.2010, 20:37
pe topicul ăsta nu s-a mai scris la subiect din 2005. între timp vreo 5000 de români au primit vize DV. peste o lună încep interviurile pentru DV-2011 şi înscrierile la DV-2012. se desfiinţează?

Cristi
06.09.2010, 08:17
Bineinteles ca Loteria Vizelor nu va disparea in curand, este cel mai bun mod pentru a da o sansa celor care vor sa emigreze, totodata si penru gazda, in criteriul ca isi poate selegta oaspetii, S.U.A nu mai are nevoie de infractori are destui asa ca au recurs la metoda Loteriei, sper sa va dipara aceste idei, informati-va sorespunzator inainte sa postati asemenea tampeni. Umpleti topicul cu bazaconi care ii deruteaza pe alti, postati ceva interesant si folositor pentru aspiranti, castigatori,si cei ajunsi acolo. Good work Aramis, you are the best, keep it up:aplause:

aramis_13
06.09.2010, 08:51
topicul nu e neapărat nefolositor. de-a lungul ultimilor 12 ani în Congres s-au introdus tot felul de amendamente (de ambele părţi) prin care se urmărea modificarea INA. unele din acestea au trecut altele nu. din fericire pentru jucătorii loteriei vizelor, chiar şi la amendamentele care au trecut, toate solicitările de desfiinţare (sau de reducare a numărului de vize) a programului DV au fost respinse. există un singur program (NACARA) care reduce numărul de vize DV într-un an fiscal cu până la 5,000.

blackmoon
14.09.2010, 02:08
Nu stiu daca va disparea. Oricum anul acesta se va desfasura numai ca intr-un alt format sa spunem. NU se vor mai primi plicurile acasa(ce care au castigat) , ci vor fi instiintati pe mail sau telefonic.

razvy
06.12.2010, 15:54
buna,

eu am 17 ani si tot timpul sunt preocupat de viitorul meu... am o prietena care e in america datorita acestei loterii..si am tot citit pe aici pe forum cate ceva ...

dupa cat am citit mi s-a parut totul cam complicat... nu stiu ce sa zic as vrea sa incerc in 2012 cand termin liceul ca poate cine stie oi avea si eu nororc..dar imi e putin cam frica nu stiu...mie frica sa nu gresessc cv...dak ajung aacolo sa nu ma panichez si sa fac cv dar pina atunci mai este nu se stie ce se poate intampla...sper sa mai existe loteria si pe atunci...nu ar fi rau sa imi traiesc si eu My american dream...